I am a sucker for intelligence. And I mean it in every way 😉
There are different kinds of intelligence.
I was very lucky to grow up in a house full of books. Books and intelligence always was linked for me. As well as knowledge.
Reading as well as writing always were a big part of my life and still are.
So naturally I have a special place for men who read and own books and such.
And also now, most of my friends are people like that. They read, they know what happens in the world…
And I love most of them. But I also discovered that just because you are, what people call, “intelligent”, doesn´t mean that you are smart or a good person.
A person might have a “doctor” in his name or studied all kinds of interesting and useful (and unuseful) things, but this doesn´t make him or her intelligent, in my eyes.
Lately I was asked a lot by boys my age what I studied in university. Most of them are just out of there or are trying to. And for them it is some kind is status symbol. And I can see it in their eyes and even in their online reaction, when I tell them that I actually never went to university.
(Note: Here in Germany it isn´t expensive to go to university. Most people go. Some stay there for ever.)
What I want to point out is what I said before. There are different kind of intelligence. I wouldn´t stop talking to someone only because he doesn´t have a PhD or because he is a “normal” worker somewhere. I try to see a man ( or a woman) as a whole person.
That said, I made it a habit to ask a man what the last book was he read. When he read it. Why…
I don´t need him to quote Shakespeare for me. But I need him to know who Shakespeare was.
And as far as online dating goes. We all make spelling mistakes. We all use those little helps when texting or tweeting, to make it all fit into one text. I can tolerate that. But I am having a hard time when people use text spelling in a longer text, email, message.
I have gone so far to decline people’s requests to follow me on Twitter when they had a spelling mistake in their bio.
And if a guy can´t write out “How R U?” in a message, he will not be getting an answer.
Now how does what I said before fit together with what I just said now?
Very easily. I don´t care whether you have a college degree or not, if I don´t understand what you are writing and have to reread every sentence then I most probably will have no interest in you.
As for myself. I am aware that I make mistakes. Spelling mistakes, little ones because I type too fast or don´t pay attention. But I should mention that I am not a native English speaker and I am ok with it, I try my best. Either in English, German or any other language I speak. I am grateful when people point out to me that I did something wrong. (When done in a nice way.)
I don´t understand people who don´t care for right spelling and such. It is a huge turn off for me. And I will probably be thinking about it, while in bed with that guy.
In my ideal world, I have discussions with my man about politics, news, books. I don´t need that to happen every time I see him. Or at all. But knowing that the possibility is there makes my panties very, very wet.
See who else is into intelligence:
1) If you read a lot, you have less time to think, or your thinking (searching in the space of possibilities) is biased. Although I try to understand your point, I don’t think reading makes people intelligent (and vice versa).
2) It is true that not all educated people are intelligent, but it is more likely. Given that it is not possible to spend time with everyone, it is still a good heuristic method.
3) as long as you understand a text why it is important to be written correctly – spell or grammar — that is why people use language, right?
Lillith, I agree that a university degree doesn’t denote intelligence. I have one, but to me it’s just a piece of paper. My education began the day I left the university.
AfterDesire, I disagree that reading gives you less time to think. Perhaps if you only read material that supports what you already know/think, reading might lead to biased thinking. But, reading is a wonderful way to discover new information, expose yourself to alternative opinions, and increase your understanding.
While reading may not make people intelligent, most intelligent people read. Because anyone who doesn’t read is less likely to grow intellectually and intelligence is something you use or lose.
intelligence is not necessary equal to education level.
Both correlate loosely in a mature society with good educational system, but there are outlyers
@ Frederick: If I accept your idea, then means watching TV or movies has the same effect — just the medium is different but conceptually the same. Then I should accept people watching random Hollywood movies or Fox, they become more intelligent. Contradiction !
There are two types of movies, books … 1) ones written using scientific approach, although it might not be about science, but using the same approach 2) selling a biased idea of an idiot as a universal. The first one is useful but there are not many, and at some point you don’t gain much by more, and you need to start thinking to progress.
Having said that, there are tunes of research supporting relation between cognitive development and reading, but I just assumed that this period is passed during high school and early university, otherwise reading is useful for cognitive development !
@ t_k:
If the education system is good how come it does not make many intelligent people and not many intelligent people go there, and they correlate loosely?!
they correlate loosely in societies with bad public education system.
1. in societies like ours – everybody goes thru educational system
2. I do not state that an educational system makes intelligent people. it is about the permeability of an educational system.
I would say that (sorry for my bad english) the concept of “intelligence” – meaning that way of intelligence that makes someones panty wet (hopefully the panties of a woman) – is a concept which cannot be explored by that kind of scientific discussion you are leading here. My personal experience is that most people that are an “intelligent” fun talking to do read books. But that does not imply that all people that do read books are not boring. And talking to people that do never read books, I would say “just for fun”, is mostly very boring. So I agree to Lillys statement.
I like your point !
But someone is fun and “makes your panty wet”, because somewhere in your brain intelligence is supposed to be sexy, evolutionary. Now I understand that something might seem intelligent and fun — like who Shakespeare is — , but it is not really intelligence. You can deceive yourself easily. Like in roleplaying or watching porn, you deceive yourself. But next time watching porn try to remember that this is just porn and they do this only to make money. (I guess then it is a turn off)
I watch porn and do roleplaying as well –> not black and white 😉
I’m a big reader, and proponent of higher education, but I don’t think people *have* to do either to be considered intelligent. I don’t really understand Afteresire’s contention that reading *negatively* impacts one’s abilities to think and form one’s own opinions. My experience has been the opposite. Reading and education have opened my mind up to new ideas, philosophies and ways of understanding my world that I would not have encountered if not for having read about them or learned about them thru education.
@t_k — Mostly, you have it backward: education doesn’t produce intelligence, intelligence is the ability to acquire education.
It’s possible for someone with intelligence to obtain a “good education” without ever attending a single class. No one with any intelligence believes that the United States has a “good education” system, but many intelligent folks have educated themselves.
@AfterDesire — Education does not create intelligence (the ability to acquire knowledge and skills). However, intelligence tends to seek education, whether formally or informally.
No, watching television or movies has been shown to use different cognitive areas of the brain. Watching doesn’t increase or improve one’s cognitive abilities in any way. (And the Tea Party in the U.S. is proof that watching Fox requires and engenders no intelligence.)
Just as reading the negative reviews of a business can give you more information about its positives than a glowing one; reading a book “selling a biased idea of an idiot as a universal” can give an intelligent person information about how that book is biased and why the subject is an idiot.
As to your assumption “that this period is passed during high school and early university,” Neurology recently published an article about research showing that it takes activities such as reading books and writing to slow down the cognitive decline that comes with aging. The relationship between cognitive development and reading is lifelong.
@MrFreeze — I think it depends entirely on the type of books read. If someone reads only one genre, essentially reading the same story with different characters over and over again, their reading won’t contribute to interesting conversation. But, you’re right, there’s nothing scientific about getting hot and bothered (whatever your gender) because of non-sexual conversation and demonstrations of intelligence. That’s why it’s considered a fetish. 😉
@PiecesofJade — Precisely!
On intelligence (ironically there is a book with this name !):
@ Frederick and Jade
Intelligence can be formulated as a search through the space of solutions, possibilities, concepts … I don’t remember the exact terminology. But if you think about it, every intellectual activity from speech to games can be formulated as a search. We call a behavior intelligent when it finds a better solution, perhaps a non-trivial one (regarding some objectives) . People learn how to search through this space by being exposed to examples, A child learns to speak and afterwards how to write by observing examples and perhaps transferring learning from other domains (that is the cool part).
Having said that, my point is exposing to garbage teaches you only exploring specific highways in this space of possibilities. While I completely understand your point about evaluating other people’s opinion, but that is not a task which is developed by reading that material you are evaluating. It is your thinking process — searching for alternatives — that makes the evaluation.
For example, imagine a person who only watches Fox, that person is only trained in one part of this space. You can evaluate other people’s opinion, because you have been already trained on some other ways of searching that can build alternatives, which might be better or not, but you prefer your own way (that is different story). Therefore, reading which shows you one’s solution won’t lead directly to an intelligent behavior.
I am well aware of the effect of reading on cognitive development as I mentioned it earlier. But a more interesting question is: is it really the reading or the cognitive process behind it ?– associating the semantics, relations, search …–
My point about early life reading (high school and early university) is: in that stage you need to grasp the possible ways to search this space, like a child needs to learn how to walk. But no one teaches a child how to run. Or no one teaches you how to write a novel after you learned how to write.
In summary my first comment was not black and white, It was more warning about the trade off.
following what I said above you can infer that actually I think education(learning) makes intelligence. I have much more points about education and education systems, but I filter myself before you hate me more and we can continue by email if you are interested 🙂
P.S: regarding “watching television or movies has been shown to use different cognitive areas of the brain”
It is the first time I hear this and I like to know more if you have any source. Actually as I know it is quite contrary: speech, reading, vision and even imagination activate (approximately ) same parts of brain. There is this popular example of “playing tennis” that is used in experiments, activates approximately the same parts of brain by all above acts
Cheers,
I have to smile about this very “intelligent” discussion. My feeling is that you all agree on the point that education is very important for that what you define as “intelligence”, even if its not the only important thing for that phenomenon and allthough there may be different systems of education which are more or less helpful for becoming an “intelligent” person. And I feel that no one really thinks that reading is something bad for becoming more “intelligent”. I dont know, what its like in the US but in Germany my experience is that people who are – I would say – stupid, do not read books. They watch private television (in Germany something like “intelligent” television still exists), they play games on the computer, but they do not read books, they do not even read “stupid” books.
So this leads me to another intereting question (referring to the point Lilly has made: Do intelligent people have better sex?
@ Mr Freeze: to your question: YES they. Intelligent people can have create ways of sex and use their brain for leveraging some funky features and behaviours.
Now I am wondering about the German university system and how it is financed?
As for books… I love them too, even with my kindle I still prefer an physical copy. There is something just so lovely about a book
Mollyxxx
Here is what I think:
The type of man Lillith describes is intelligent, of course, but more important attributes are curiosity and open-mindedness. These men love to learn (books!) and love to debate. Ideally, they have not one, but several areas of interest, where they acquire lots of knowledge and understanding (!).
—
What I don’t understand is that geeks and nerds are often described as sexy for their level of intelligence/education or their passion for something. I wholeheartedly disagree: Geeks and nerds are typically focused on one area. They may excell when it comes to that area, but in other areas they don’t have a lot of interest… why is that sexy?!
Seriously… life is so complex, so wonderful – I cannot understand how any truly intelligent and curious person cannot see this and instead be interested in a single area only… that’s like looking at a small part of our universe and ignoring all the other stuff.
Peace.
@AfterDesire: Unfortunately, I don’t have to “imagine a person who only watches Fox.” In the U.S. that’s known as a member of the Tea Party.
However, I have to disagree with your statement “no one teaches you how to write a novel after you learned how to write.”
No one can write a novel without studying the craft of novel writing. That’s equivalent to stepping onto the stage to dance Swan Lake without ever studying ballet even though they learned how to “dance.” Would you tell someone they don’t need anyone to teach them how to paint because they learned to dip brushes in color and stroke the color on a canvas?
@px I’m guessing you don’t know too many geeks. One thing that often characterizes geeks is they are interested in everything. They often have a vast knowledge about a variety of subjects — they’re the kind of folk who get lost surfing the Internet because they follow links to the source material which leads them to more information about even more topics.
Chances are, if you’re talking to a geek who seems focused on one subject area, that’s just the one that most recently captured their interest so they’re excited to share what they’ve learned.
(FYI, I’m not a geek, but I’ve married two and have two siblings and many friends who are.)
This morning seeing the last comments about making sex and intelligence reminded me something I heard sometime before from Zizek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUn4hF7gmY
Intelligence makes me wet too, unfortunately my husband doesn’t read, or keep up on current events, and cannot write at all. So apparently while it makes me wet, I can still fall in love otherwise.
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